Tyrolia Binding Instructions Paper Template
Fr0sty, I presume that you're wanting to flat mount & not install another rail system? If you can position the Axial's toe piece in the correct location on the ski you could then mount the heelpiece either shorter or longer as req'd & then use the forward pressure adjustment in the heelpiece to get the BSL right - a bit of careful measuring is all thats reqd. I doubt a shop would consider this solution as they'll usually only check with a jig set to your BSL. The Marker Schizo could also be good as you could offset the mounting plates to miss the existing holes but then use the fore/aft adjustment to bring your boot back to the boot line.
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Spyderjon, interesting idea - I honestly hadn't considered it. The skis are for an early intermediate female using (mostly) on-piste. I believe that she has only ever skiied integrated rail systems as demo or packaged skis. I don't imagine that at her level of skiing she would notice any different connection with the ski using a flat mount - (could be wrong and if you're reading this then sorry.!) - I was simply looking at it from a weight saving issue. Having never ridden the Schizo myself, my only concern would be whether the Schizo skis at all differently, whether that difference is noticeable and whether it would be too much faff for a leisure skiier who will be using these in ski school each day with no-one there to assist with changes.
If it's just to side-step the placement problem then it would probably work - the skis are still at Bartletts so I can't confirm until next week. Have you done this before? Have you replaced a demo set of Tyrolias before?
- (if so what did you use?) I believe I can source a Head rail-based set, a Fischer rail-based set or I have some Mojo 12 flat mounts - but if the problem is with all flat mounts then these would obviously be of no use. Typically this would have been made so much easier if I had taken her skis to the shop myself and asked/answered any questions. Fr0sty, for that level of skier who's mostly on piste then a rail mount will assist in levering the skis up on edge - so why not just stick with the SP120's? Although demo bindings do weigh more than retail versions the 120 is as light a demo set-up as you're gonna get as the rail system is mostly all plastic. With the Axials all you're gonna save is about 200g per ski which, although a tad heavier for carrying, is in the middle of the ski & so adds no additional swingweight -if anything it adds stability in variable snow.
IMO the it's not worth cost or the dickin' around. Ok shall we start at the beginning, these are a pair of Palmer skis with a 'Head Supershape Magnum' type mounting plate spyderjon (you would be surprised at the many things we consider and do for our customers ) will know what that is. It is not a rail system.
These were bought in yesterday a fairly busy Saturday and left with us for a binding swap,it was not immediately apparent which plate was on the ski due to the demo plate and binding. If fr0sty, had previously removed the binding it is surprising this was not mentioned at the time. During the afternoon I had a moment to have a quick look and remove the SP120, work out where the centre line was as there are no markings on plate or ski and put the Rossi jig on. Some shops might have drilled it I wouldn't. The Head/Tyrollia Fischer bindings or any with the same whole pattern would fit the existing predrilled plate and give the correct mounting position. The Marker Free/ Griffin etc will not fit, some Salomon/Atomic possibly could if the customer wanted to be a couple of cm forward of boot centre. Yes we could remove the plate and flat mount but the skis were obviously designed to be skied with the plate. If fr0sty, decides to stick with the SP120 our time for the above - unlike many shops - would be goodwill.
Gsb, Many thanks for your response. As I said earlier I guessed that you would have compared it with your jigs when you had a chace to look at them. Of course if we really are starting at the beginning, then we should also say that the skis were previously brought into your store two weeks (or so) before this weekend, at which point a member of your staff was asked if they could perform the swap. A member of your staff took the skis into the ski techs, returning a few minutes later to say that this shouldn't be a problem. However, at the time I did not have the Rossignol bindings with me so saw no reason to leave them behind. It would appear that my mentioning your shops name here has somehow ruffled your feathers. This is generally why I don't like mentioning any commercial enterprise unless there is an absolute need.
People become very defensive even though I don't feel that on this occasion I was in any way being negative about your services or company - perhaps you disagree? As for the 'rail system'; my use of the term was obviously misleading. My mention of any 'rail system' was due to the fact that your shop suggested either a Fischer or a Head binding instead of the existing mount. Therefore it seemed logical that unless you were suggesting an alternative demo binding, you might have been suggesting something vaguely equivalent to avoid proximity to the exisiting holes - I wasn't aware that what you meant was just mounting a different set on top of the mounting plate. This would appear to negate my intention to reduce the overall weight which was the primary reason that my partner had communicated to the shop staff. However, as you have taken the trouble to post here I don't really want to argue over nothing and am very much interested in any advice that you could give.
I have previously seen the P02 mounted without a plate so assume they are skiable without one. My main concern is the overall weight of the pair, so would appreciate any thoughts or advice which you may have on solutions to this situation. If the only solution is to retain the existing pair then again I would appreciate your advice on that too. She enjoys skiing them (although they are lightly skiied at present), so my focus is really to make the overall weight more manageable. Very many thanks for your input. /edit - just to confirm and avoid confusion gsb, when you say that you could flat mount, does that mean that in your opinion a flat mount would make the holes too close to the pre-drilled holes (and I would have to decide to risk the integrity) - or are you saying that you could flat mount but you think that they would ski better with a plate system?
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Hi, fr0sty, We always try to help, with your Rossis the new holes would be to close on the plate, but your Mojos should fit directly onto the plates using one of the many predrilled settings. Alternatively we can remove the plates and subject to their mounting holes and the jig for the Rossis or Mojos we could flat mount directly onto the topsheet. The skis will obviously be stiffer with a plate than without, of course the plates could always be put back on at a later date if needed and the mojos mounted. Gsb, very many thanks for your quick response. If at all possible I would appreciate you removing the plates and either flat mounting the Rossi bindings as standard, or staggering the heel mount spot (as spyderjon suggested) and if you also feel that it's required.
If after removal of the demo bindings and the plates you find that this simply cannot be done, then I would appreciate your suggestions on possible alternatives for a flat mount. While I very much appreciate the good will offer that you made, I will of course pay for your shop's time as you are now trying to mount the Rossi bindings for me. Very many thanks.
As an update to this thread, the bindings have now been mounted by Ski Bartlett. Graham (the ski tech) managed to place the toe piece without issue, so was able to re-position the heel placement and counter-balance the boot centre mount point as discussed. Despite this being a more difficult request than the standard binding mount, they charged us the same price as any other.
Tyrolia Binding Jig
Equally while they offered us excellent, friendly, expert advice, ultimately they were content to provide their customer with exactly what was asked for - which in my opinion equates to superb service. As an aside to this issue but very much worth noting was a conversation that I overheard while in the store waiting for the skis. A customer entered at about 3.30-4pm and asked about a boot fitting. The female member of staff explained that they closed at 5.30pm, all the boot fitters were busy and there were also 3 others waiting to be served first. The customer was insistent and explained that they had called earlier today to ask about a fitting and had been told that it would be possible; (of course it transpired that he had called about four hours before, when the shop had been very empty.).
Tyrolia Bindings Manual
However, virtually without hesitation the member of staff agreed to the service, stating that he probably wouldn't be seen until after 6pm - (note the 5.30pm closing time) - and the shop would be closed, but all of the customers would be fitted as agreed. I'm not affiliated with this shop (generally prefering to do my own servicing and maintenance etc); but after the assistance I received I thought it only fair to share this story as it would appear to speak volumes about the shop's ethic. Once again Graham ( gsb and spyderjon), many thanks for all of your help.